Welcome, visitors from The Richey Family blog! I’m glad you stopped by and look forward to hearing your comments on my opinions, and those of my other readers. You might also like to read my response to Crystal’s post: Feminists are selfish - obey God’s command!
I went to see a friend last night, whom I hadn’t seen for quite some time. Now that S is overseas, I’m keeping myself extremely busy with my personal business (as opposed to my day-job, in which I’m still busy of course, but I digress).
He mentioned that last time he saw S, she flipped out after another friend commented, yet again, that we should really have kids. There was some comment along the lines of “but it’s obvious Ben’s gagging for kids”.
I almost fell over when he told me that last bit. Sure, I love kids - love ‘em to bits. They’re cute and funny and always surprise you and do things you’d never dream of because they haven’t acquired inhibitions yet. They ask funny questions, which are actually quite serious. Their thirst for knowledge is unquenchable.
And then they cry, or shout, or run away from home, or kick the walls in or damage other property.
No thank you. No really - I love your kids - because when they get shitty, you can have them back, thank you very much.
I have two reasons for not wanting kids, and the selfish aspect of not wanting to deal with little shits, however cute they are, is one of them. I’m just selfish, I want to keep my money and time to myself.
The other reason, the one I told my friend last night, is this little issue of world over population. With the medical advances of the last few centuries, it is now possible to give birth to that which was not meant to live. I don’t mean to be cruel here, but there are many people alive today that should not be. And before you get on your high horse, I’m one of them.
Now this world on which we live has finite resources. Sure, many are renewable, but there’s only so much space to grow stuff that there is a finite quantity available at any one time. These people who should technically not be alive are using resources and producing pollutants that would not be used/produced had nature taken it course and not allowed them to survive. I actually feel rather ill when I hear of people who’s child was born 13 weeks premature and survived. It should have died. Since the dawn of time, the evolutionary path of any species is driven by nature: survival of the fittest. We’re messing with nature, and in turn with our own evolutionary path.
And we should remember that humans are not the only animals on earth, this overpopulation is affecting others too: forests destroyed for residential purposes, water diverted for human use, air poluted for human convenience, the list goes on.
My friend’s counter-argument to this was that none of that should matter. My sole purpose on this world is to produce children to keep my genes in the gene pool. The fact that this would add to a growing problem is not for me to worry about - I have to do my job, and let my kids cope with the consequences.
Who’s selfish now?
You’re gonna bring children into this world which, probably not in their life time, but quite possibly their childrens’, will not be able to sustain the number of animals that inhabit it.
As for it not being my issue to deal with - humans made it everyone’s issue when they shifted the balance of nature. By breaking the rules and helping people who should not have kids reproduce, they have started a downward spiral that I do not wish to subject anyone to with out their consent. Statistically speaking, kids don’t have a say about whether they’ll be born or not (100% of children were born without prior consultation).
I learnt a few interesting things about my friend though. While I perfectly understand his desire to have kids, he cannot fathom my want not to have them. It just doesn’t compute. Something to do with going against the grain of human instincts. It also reconfirmed my inability to have a meaningful discussion with him. Discussions are usually bi-directional. This discussion was more like an anti-tug-of-war, where my arguments were pushed back before they could be delivered. This inability for him to understand my position extends to others as well - the other friend who set S off some weeks back, for example.
There are some people in this world, who are able to understand, though, and I feel so happy when someone does. Not that I need their approval, but I know I won’t be in a 30 minute one-sided discussion. Again.
Writing this has lead me to think again about what I think I’m achieving. Sure, there will be 2.4 fewer people on this planet, and in 30 years time, there will be 5.76 fewer people. Big deal. I hope there are other people out there, and I know there are, who are doing the same. Lots of small steps might go some way to correcting the balance.
Should I kill myself to increase that 2.4 to a 3.4? Perhaps. It would be the logical thing to do. I won’t though.
You see, I have learnt what it is like to be alive, and I wouldn’t want to lose that. Had I not survived my childhood illnesses, I would not have learnt what life was like, and would not have missed it. Unfortunately for me, I like being alive, and will continue to do so for a while.
hi ben
interesting post. i agree with most of what you said but to differing degrees.
i dont believe that you should not have children because they may be kept alive via medicine and technology when they otherwise would die. rather i believe that more natural birth procedures should be followed. so basically, if the child cannot survive without tech it will die. i have a friend who practices chinese medicine and they have some very cool theories in this area.
in regards to over population resulting in the draining of resources i agree and think this is a more compelling argument. however i still would like to have children.
my partner and i are both very eco and politically aware and have no doubt our offspring will be too. so the question for us becomes, does one more child in the world who is eco/politically aware use more resources then if it were not to exist? I guess the obvious answer is yes - but the multiplied affect is not so clear.
i also believe that the only way the resource problem will ever be solved is by removing capitalism from the world. More people who are politically aware is going to help that.
abstinence is not going to fix the problem, but rather a complete change in the way humans view the world.
anyway, cheers
andrew
Hi Andrew!
I think one of us has misunderstood the other - not sure which way round. I’m not saying I won’t have kids because they might one day need medical and technological assistance to stay alive. I think that humans (not just young ones) who have life threatening situations that would not be curable under normal cirsumstances (think of what help was available a century or two ago) should not survive; the death of the young and weak in any species is designed to ensure the species survives and evolves, while the death of the old is designed to manage the population.
I agree with you when you say that more ecologically and politically aware people are better than none. It’s at that point where I fall back to the “I’m selfish and want to keep my time and money to myself” argument
Your kids-to-be sound like the kind I wouldn’t mind babysitting
BB
I think a link to http://www.populationparsons.com is suitable for this one. Just scroll down to the population counter at the bottom and watch it for a few moments.
Controversial Benji! I wuz going to say stuff too about using the opportunity of creating more worldly- and eco-minded little people on the planet. It’s a bit like the Thai govt (oops) with their scheme where graduate women were encouraged financially for every child they had (as they tended to spend all their time seeking careers instead) and less-educated women were penalised for having more than 2 nippers by having their social housing taken away or something. Harsh, but with socially conscious intentions. A response to a slow outweighing of baby-popping women who rely upon the state against babyless women who die leaving no brainy legacies! Ouch! There are definitely too many people on this world, and we’re all guilty of social engineering simply because we choose to bring children into this world and train them to be just like us, or what we wish we could be: ecowarriors / brainboxes / benefit-leeching-compo-claimers, whatever! Or by choosing none at all.
But mostly, my view is this: We are all walking Instinctiphiles. Just like we were designed to die if we were weak, or live if we were strong, we were also designed to create fantastic things around us, and enjoy life. Even animals smile and laugh and play. Life was created with two overall aims - stay alive, and die happy. If you gain that life-happiness from being a top lawyer with success, money, three houses and all the rest, fine. Some people get life satisfaction from raising kids. Some people feel fulfilled if they managed to see all they could of this world and learn everything they can in one lifetime. Some people do a couple of those things, some people do it all. Whatever. We all seek what will make us happy. Even if that means using more carbon than you really should on all those long haul flights that aren’t really essential to staying alive, or contributing to the swelling population when we’re already sinking into the sea (Britain being an island, see). So what? I think it’s fine to do all that as long as you don’t take the p*ss. Don’t hurt people or animals, don’t arrogantly waste resources, don’t take from others to get what you want.
But God gave us instincts, which is what we all follow regardless. And why would he make us able above all other species to make each other better and solve problems in life? We’re all like superheroes or trump cards or something, and we each have our own talent to keep ourselves alive and happy. We’re not the fastest runners, so we die if we upset a cheetah. We’re nothing against the power of the sea, we can be killed from within from the tiniest bugs, or we can be sat on by a huge elephant. But what we can do is use our thumbs and our brains. The ‘strongest will survive’ theory can be applied to the natural consequences of nature, but it can still also be defined by the following: We can build houses to stay safe from cheetahs. We can light fires to keep away bugs, and get elephants to become our friends. We can strip bark and make tinctures and heal wounds.
And, we can form zygotes in the lab and freeze little life forms and give would-be parents the chance to fulfil their life-happiness. That’s what we do.
Speaking as a mother - yours - I am so glad you are in the world.
But then that was my choice. As part of the deal to appease my overwhelming maternal urges I didn’t mind staying up all night when you were ill or even racing through the darkness in Austria to get you to a doctor when you had an asthma attack in a tent. Or even replastering kicked-in walls. I would have gone to the ends of the earth for my little shit.
However, now that I have no dependent children at home, and all my money is MINE! - I appreciate many of your sentiments. I would defend your right to make your own decisions in life, and if not having children is one of them, then I can accept that in the knowledge that my son knows what he wants from life. Isn’t that what most parents want for their offspring?
not only do i think your selfish and closed minded but missing out on a real opportunity to mature yourself as no other way can. yes, children can be a pain and a selfish indulgence of human nature, but they also give us insight into the goal of all mankind; to be truely innocent, honest, creative , and the abundance to show and give of themself and love. So maybe god gave us children to set a goal for our own behavior. There is only a short portion of our life that we are able to bare children; i think god already set a stopgap of population control. It is really so sad that children and childhood is not always nutured and given a break to each and every child for the full term of childhood. Think, if everyone thought like you there would be no you to enjoy life.
Silly argument above. It takes more then one kind of person to make a world. Not wanting children is as legitimate as wanting children.
Some people who don’t have children are able to have beautiful relationships with their other half, and persue careers with undeterred focus, some of which may help ’save the planet’ , even in a small way.
Not having children is not selfish ; expecting everyone to think like you, is. Anyway, if you wanted to be ‘truly innocent, creative’ (and) show love’ you could always adopt a child that is already in the world. Why the necessity to have your own flesh and blood: if there is one thing thicker than blood, it’s love. So all that showing your love by having a child is rubbish.
I myself have a little girl, but I would never judge a person for not having a child. I would judge a person on how they live their life - with or without children
Thanks for your comment Sally. I agree totally that there are many ways that people can contribute to the world - and society as part of it.
I’ve been travelling and will find time soon to reply to you Toni.
And mum - thanks for calling me a little shit - made me laugh
SO GLAD to find someone else who thinks like me and my husband. We just don’t want them. Period. I love kids, love babysitting all the nieces and nephews, but I LOVE going home to my controlled environment… and if I (we) ever change our mind(s) I’d consider adoption of an already existing baby before I added to the mess myself.
thank god, there is somebody like me out there, im so sick of baby makers, its out of control, people are now having kids starting at the age of 13 and up, and each new guy they meet, they pop out another unwanted kids, its annoying
I have also agreed with my partner not to have children for most of the reasons above.
We don’t think that there is anything wrong with having children (after all, our parents had them!) but I feel really strongly that there are far too many people already.
I enjoy seeing other people’s children growing and playing and doing all that crazy shit that makes you laugh, and sometimes it seems that it would be nice to have that stuff yourself. Unfortunately I also see families with 3,4,5+ children, father sitting in the MPV filled with kids with the engine running waiting for mother to come out of the shops. There are countless other examples, but you get my point. The people who actually have the offspring are (often) the ones causing the most harm to THEIR CHILDREN’S WORLD. I want to tell people this so often, but people don’t like non-parents telling them how to raise their families…
My partner and I live a reasonably enviro-friendly lifestyle, but we could all do more to save the planet for our (your) kids. We’re not going to though are we? How much electricity do we waste using our computers? Why do we all live so far away from our jobs? Why do we change our car every couple of years? Often the reason is to help the kids (encourage them - computers are future; have to travel for better job to afford kids; newer car safer)
I don’t want to bring more kids into an over-populated world with the shakiest future it’s ever had and then have to live with myself knowing I made the choice to bring them into this and then left them to deal with it.
Sorry if this seems like a bit of a rant.
If the world ever makes me think that it has the chance of a future I’ll adopt. (There is no shortage of unwanted/orphaned kids either)
Thanks for dropping by Geoff. Didn’t seem (too much) like a rant at all
I recently discussed the current number of planets required to sustain different lifestyles with some friends, and your comment has spurred me to write another post about it.
I knew that I didn’t want children - mainly because yeah, I’m selfish too - but now I’m more convinced. I had never thought about it from the over population point of view before, but it makes A LOT of sense. Messing with nature is a no-no.
And by the way, I probably should not be alive right now. I was fine when I popped out but then I got the German Measles, the Mumps, a mutated form of Rubella, Pneumonia 9 times, and a series of bad flus and infections, all before my third birthday. I’m grateful to be alive (sometimes…) but I probably shouldn’t be.]
So thanks…And that was very well written.
Hi Eris!
Thanks for dropping by and for your compliments. Your medical history sounds similar to mine, except mine spanned 18 years, not 3
Hi Ben
Reading your article and the ensueing comments has brightened up my morning!
I’m a Primary School teacher working in the North of England. I love working with the children, most of the time it’s a joy. They come from all different types of backgrounds and on the whole have a playful and happy life and I feel privelidged to be part of it.
But that still doesn’t mean I want to have kids. I get to see the other side of having children:
1. Income and cost
How your income (if your partner works) would have to be cut in half so one of you can stay at home and bring the child up. People would argue what about grandparents or child care. Will havn’t grandparents done their bit? And have you heard how much the average child care costs are now? (Approximately £132 per week in England). Then put that on top of your repayments for a 100 k mortgage (to provide a stable living situation for your children). BONKERS (if you ask me). A program on Channel 4 recently put the cost of having children to be (on average) £180,000 EACH!!
2. Social Pressures
Now more than ever children seem to be subject to very strong social pressures. It is very hard to give children a balanced objective view of the world when they are bombarded with advertising coming from all angles. One could argue that social pressures have always been there! They have, that I do agree with. But look at the amount there is now for children to deal with is it the same as ours when we were kids?
3. The Environment
This has been commented on already and I don’t need to elaborate on it! But we in the western world are putting an enormous pressure on the worlds resources by being part of a consumerist culture. It is very hard for me to be working at reducing my own part in that without adding to it by having kids. But my main argument here is if I had children what world would they be dealing with when I’m dead and gone!!
I could go on but in conclusion I agree with Sally. Having children and not having are both legitimate choices. What makes them good choices is whether we are willing to face the consequences of making them!
Thanks for kicking it off Ben!
Neil
Hmmm….lets see….
Pros:
vicarious living
women cuchie-cooing your baby in the pram
Cons:
expensive
smell bad
loud
crying
annoying
whining
fighting
constant worrying over safety/health
cheeky/saucy
obnoxious
expensive
expensive
dirty
breaking your shit
asking endless questions
having to deal with other parents
idiotic, modern kids cartoons (nothin but CG/graphics)
drive a wedge between you and your spouse (yes, it happens)
and endless other cons…
No thanks ppl, I’ll keep my sanity/money/time/hobbies lol
hahahaha
Wow - this certainly has been a popular post!
Thanks for dropping by Neal - glad to have brightened up your morning.
And thanks for your excellent in-depth comparative evaluation of being a parent Dave
I have always known since I was first capable of thought, that I do not want kids. That feeling has never changed or wavered.
lmao @ Dave…….. Only two pros and like 20 or so cons listed and many more…lol… I definitely agree with the breaking your shit, because I don’t have kids, I have two nephews, and lets just say they(probably more so the younger one, but both really) have broken my tv, PS2, bed, scratched so many of my music or ps2 cds(some beyond repair), ripped sheets and other ripped things, dents in wals, and the list goes on…. Not to mention the fact that I have had things thrown at me and I’ve been kicked or punched way too many times in the nuts…lol…I know most kids will hit ya in the nuts, but damn the amount of times I been hit there just doesn’t seem normal…lol.. And to think these are just my nephews and yes i do love them so much and all, but got’s damn…lol…. Lucky for me I can send them back when they get too out of line or when I get annoyed or too stressed, which is an advantage…..They are good kids most of the time, but again they are kids, and kids like to do crazy things good or bad.
A few years back I myself used to say I want a bunch of kids, and when I was asked or just when I thought of it I would say maybe 5 or 6 of them. In most cases I came to my senses and said maybe 1 or 2 kids, anything more is asking for it…lol…. But then when I think to myself now and if asked now my response is that I do not want any kids…. I love kids, don’t get me wrong, they are our future, but it just ain’t happening…lol… I love my freedom, and I love that I can use my money, time, and everything the way I see fit without worrying about who’s going to take care of some kids when I’m on vacation. There are other ways to contribute through philanthropy and various other methods.
Another con I would add to your list, even though you said endless others, is the big time stress factor. Children have got to be the most stressful beings on earth, regardless if they are good or bad kids, you will get stressed out….lol..lol… I might be only in my mid 20’s now, and you never know if I may change my mind 15 years down the line(people always use the never say never thing), but right now I know I don’t want any children. There are some other pros such as they are cute, make you laugh, can brighten up your day, but still no. It’s not selfish to not want kids, it just means you’ve made your choice and stick to it.
It’s 2007, not 1421, and if I have to justify my not wanting kids to one more person, I might start swinging.
I’m happily married-for years-to a man who shares my feelings. PEOPLE: you have no right to judge those who choose not to have children. Their reasons are sound FOR THEM. Happy? Don’t want to carry a child? Can’t afford it? Don’t want to read Thomas the Tank Engine when you have a biochemistry PhD? Want to have hot sex in your life? Want to travel? Don’t like kids? It’s OK to feel these things-a nd those of us who do have the right not to be pilloried for them. Just a thought.
There is only a short portion of our life that we are able to bare children; i think god already set a stopgap of population control.
Actually, this is not true. Many females can now have children between ages 8-45, almost 40 years! That’s almost HALF most people lifespan, not a short while.
surely bringing someone into this world is being selfish?
The child has no choice wether it wants to live here.If the child saw what it has to go through in its life,i think it would crawl back in!
I certanly don’t enjoy getting up for work everyday for 40 years and i wouldn’t want to put any one else through it.
The amount of pleasure you get in life doesn’t add up with the amount of crap you have to take.
I think some children would thankyou for not having them in the first place.
A sad way to look at it ,but a very true one !
Firstly, my apologies for being slack on approving comments.
I notice, reading through this post’s comments, that I still haven’t addressed Toni’s comment from last year! I decided to address this in a new post.
To everyone else who’s posted, thanks for your comments!
Steve (comment 22). While I understand your sentiments, life really is what you make of it. Sure, there are times when you’re kicked, and then kicked again while you’re down. And I understand people can get in to a rut and not see any way out. Your story, however, sounds to me like you’re sick with the every day corporate/capitalist lifestyle. So are a lot of people. There are ways out though, you just have to get out of your comfort zone and reevaluate what is important.
Why not work on a strategy to do what you’d like to do. My current plans, for example, are to work for another 3 years to pay off the mortgage. I’m lucky that my wife and I have reasonable salaries and relatively low outgoings. Once the mortgage is paid off, we’ll work for another year or so to fill the savings account, and then travel the world for however long it takes. We’ll work a little on our travels to pay for every day expenses and use our savings only for emergencies. When we finally find a place we like (might even be back in Australia), we’ll settle, build our own eco-friendly house and live off the rental income from our current property.
It’s a plan - I’m not saying it’s foolproof, but it’s a plan
Sad as it may be, most people on this earth do not think about these issues (overpopulation, etc), let alone take personal actions that might impinge on their own fulfilment and happiness in ‘this life’ (e.g. having kids). THAT, to me, is the defintion of selfishness.
This generation may not live to see it, but the day will soon come when the effects of overpopulation of our planet come home to roost…and what could be more selfless than to choose not to bring others into this world having to face this?
Do what you think is right, not what everyone else thinks is.
Hi,
Rats! It looks like aI missed the best part of the debate. I too am in this position where my GF wants to plan for kids and I don’t want kids. Since this came up recently and is threatening our relationship I think we non-populators have several things that we must follow.
We must make our intentions known early. Not doing so appears to have the effect of dooming our relationships when the SO finds out.
You also need to know your defenses against the labels of selfish, immature, uncaring, unconfident and weak.
You should be prepared to lose friends over it.
However there are so many valid points in the posts above that I can’t be dissuaded and there are arguments for all my points as well.
Hi Simon! I’m sorry to hear you’re in such an awkward position. I hope you both come to a happy outcome…
Just wanted to leave a quick THANK YOU! I’m a 27 year old woman who does not want to have kids. When I mention reasons similar to yours above other women usually look at me with a mixture of pity and distrust. These are usually the same people who then whine endlessly about their families and having no money. Thanks for making me feel a little more normal!
I totally agree with all that is being said above re. population, climate and Daves list in post 16! My girlfriend is really pressurizing me to have children. Im in the music business and it’s very unstable at the moment - I work long crazy hours and I guess am quite selfishly devoted to my work. I just dont see kids fitting into my life. I love traveling + lots of peace and tranquility as well. I really think that if she talks me into this I will really come to regret it. This is really driving a wedge between us. Help!
Hey Johnny! Don’t let anyone pressure you into making any decision - you have to be as comfortable with any plans made as the other person or people involved. Simon, in comment 26, had a similar issue, and sometimes it’s sad that relationships end when the people take different directions, but sometimes people manage to sit down and discuss the issues and find common ground so everyone’s happy… Best of luck!
Wow. Great debate, great posts. I’m 40. Can’t quite figure out how I got to this age, but there you go. I never really wanted to have kids - it never really featured in my list of stuff I needed in my life. I was always trying to do things like travel, work in different jobs, have different relationships, take singing lessons or just go to therapy and figure out why I’m the way I am. Good stuff. When I lived in New York that seemed quite natural, but since coming back to the UK I’ve felt like a freak for feeling this way. In fact I’ve been quite depressed - but didn’t realise until recently that it’s not being childfree that depresses me, it’s being surrounded by people who are obsessed by their kids, or just having kids. I’m going to give up the idea that there’s something wrong with me - I just need to read and talk to more people who feel like I do! Thanks again, Ben and everyone else!!
Thanks for adding to the discussion Caroline! There’s certainly nothing wrong or freakish in not wanting children - it’s a matter of choice. You’re right that there is a stigma in our society that childless adults are not the norm, or even abnormal.
Keep your head up and feel proud of the fact that you have made an active decision. We have the upper hand, if we change our minds we can still have children. There are doubtlessly many parents that had children because they felt it was the expected thing to do, rather than by making a conscious decision to procreate.
Cheers!
Ben
THANK YOU for your post. I’m so tired of being judged against a dominant life-script that doesn’t suit everyone. Actually, come to think, it’s getting less and less dominant, I reckon. I noticed one person who posted here said that having kids allow you to mature in ways you wouldn’t otherwise mature. Two things- the first is that there are other ways to mature and be wise and be good human beings (I wouldn’t call the entire Catholic clergy immature); and the second is that I’m absolutely certain that whether becoming parents really do evoke or allow for maturity really depends on the individual: I have seen parents who are obviously very immature themselves (regardless of age), and it’s a scary sight, kids raising kids (think Britney to start with). The parents are selfish and grabby and status- and wealth-conscious, rude and inconsiderate, arrogant and narrow-minded, and they raise their kids to be exactly as they are, without seeing how damaging this is to both their kids and to the wider society on which these children will then be unleashed. I’m not exaggerating. I’ve seen all sorts of parents. Additionally, my own parents were teachers (who, incidentally, gave me a fabulous childhood, bless them, and didn’t let me get away with any sort of bad behaviour or selfishness), so I’ve heard their tales too, of students whose parents who could be described with at least several of the above adjectives.
Being a parent doesn’t make one an authority on maturity, wisdom, unselfishness, or compassion. It’s irrelevant. If the dominant script fits, great, but if it doesn’t, then those who chart their own path should really be equally respected for taking a road less travelled that they will have chart themselves, with less support, now and in the future.
I think, in this interdependent world, the most important lesson to teach every child is respect for and acceptance of a wide variety of views, as long as those views do not harm anyone.
So, shouldn’t all good parents and parents-to-be and parent-wannabes lead the way in this, by accepting that others make choices that deviate from theirs?
Hi,
I’ve been having this discussion recently and been reading up on it as well.
Here is what I can make of it, feel free to add or object.
Kids, as some would say are the natural order of things. Is that why you have them? NO! But yes it is the natural thing to do. Like eating. To have clones is not the NATURAL thing to do. I hope that clears what I mean by natural. Adoption, let me clarify isnt the NATURAL thing to do, its a social cause for which we adopt.
Some one also said, we thrust a child into the world, without his or her consent. What? Let me turn it on its head. You are taking away a chance from a child to make a difference without asking him. (Difference could be a mess I agree
)
Now, a resource crunch plus over populated world stand point. Ask your self a few basic questions, are there more people who are willing to have kids vs. people who are not? By multiplier effect, what is the net effect going to be? Good. If you are so socially responsible, why not have a kid and try to make him socially responsible as well. Please NOTE I said TRY not force. He’s a kid, let him have his own thoughts as well. Educated citizens of the world would do a better job at sorting out these issues. Than people just killing them selves off.
Some one said, there are people on the planet, who shouldnt have been had nature taken its course. Also mentioned, neither should have she/he, hadnt it been for medicine. Stop using nature to back you view point. Have you thought what else science has given you? Where is the guilt when you drive the car? Use the computer? So that it self is hypocritical.
Now to ask why would you want a kid?
(Note the initial points are just to counter the people who have raised similar issues as a counter view point)
1. For each two citizens of the world you have one kid. It leads to an automatic 50% reduction in population. Do the math. Adopt the second child if you will.
2. The cost on each countries resources would be higher, if we don’t have independent support systems for the aged, due to poor mental health and emotional health (if you can call it that). Note, in most stress related issues, people are asked to spend some Family time. By independent support systems, I mean family (you, your wife, children etc.)
3. If I ask any one who do you love the most, in all probability, (excluding some movie stars!) You would always hear, Mom, Dad, or some one from the family or to be family (partner). You are saying taking away this love is the right thing to do?
4. Pain, I have been reading up on it as well, some of the medicines make it a near painless experience (comparatively… but I figure it still pains!) Let me put logic before this argument. If it is so painful, do you suppose the second child is the husbands way of punishing is loving wife? I understand PPP and the wear and tear of the body etc. These can be dealt with if you have the right family / friend circle.
5. Losing out on personal time / money
Coming from people who think so much about the world and how they are adding to the mess, such comments, in my opinion reflect on their hollowness. If you are offended, I apologize sincerely. Odds are your child, would contribute in some way. Maybe adopt another one when he grows up, maybe save a life, may be father a great child. May be love some one, whod never seen love before.
I could go on. But only if you are interested. Let me know.
And in case I said something out of place, let me know.
Regards,
Malhi
G’day Malhi! Thanks for a lengthy and well written comment. I’ll try and cover most of your points in my reply…
[ Just about to hit "Submit" and I've seen how long this is. I might need to look into a comment paging plug-in soon
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I think I understand your definition of “natural” in “the natural order of things” - just not your definition of “the natural order of things”. It’s true that most people are biologically “preprogrammed” to want to procreate, but not everyone is. Fewer people are nowadays - that’s nature for you. As far as I’m aware, all species of animal will reduce their procreation rate as the population increases in order to ensure there are sufficient resources to sustain that population. It seems from other comments on this list that there are those who do not wish to procreate that feel coerced to by society - in my opinion by people like you who think it’s somehow wrong not to procreate.
As for bringing people in to this world and trying to encourage them to become socially responsible, do you see the problem? Are we supposed to create more people so that there are more people around to work out how to solve the population problem? I see a mathematical flaw there. And your final comment in that paragraph: “Educated citizens of the world would do a better job at sorting out these issues” - are you implying that those who do not wish to procreate will do a better job of educating their children than those who wish to procreate?
You say that I (the person who should not have survived without drugs) should stop being hypocritical and not use nature to to back my view point, and to think of all the other things science has given me. That itself is a very selfish comment - are you implying that I should stop caring about the planet and just use science to my benefit? I’m not just talking about overpopulation. You mention cars and computers - one pollutes directly, the other indirectly through the use of coal powered electricity. Well while that’s true at the moment, I’m researching PHEV vehicles that will allow me to commute without using any fuel, and will be installing solar electricity at my new house to charge the vehicles and run my computers (and lights and TV, etc…)
Moving to your list of reasons for having kids. I don’t understand number 1. Are you saying we should only have one child? Are you saying people do only have one child? I think the current average is 2.1 children per family. This points towards continuous population growth.
Point two seems similar to your educated people comment earlier. We need more people to pay for the cost of all the old people. What do we do when all those young people get old - have even more people to pay for them? Again, I’m having problems with the mathematics of your solution.
Point three - please be serious! You’re telling me that me not having kids is taking away the love that I would have from that child? Do you not see, again, that this is a ridiculous point? I know my children won’t love me, because I won’t have any. I’m not going to lose out on love that I will never have in the first place.
I don’t understand point 4. What pain? The only other reference to pain I can see on this page is “children can be a pain” and I don’t think you’re referring to that issue…
Now for point 5. Could you kindly explain why you believe me to be hollow for wanting to keep my time and money for myself? I’m not offended, just curious. I’ll take a stab in the dark and assume that you think I’ll take all my money and spend it on petrol for my car, lavish holidays and beer. Well, you’d be right about the last point, but the beer would most likely be bought from a nice local bar somewhere in South America after a day helping a local community build a new school. Point is, in my case I’d be spending the money on travelling the world, meeting people, learning, helping out wherever I can by way of voluntary work. That’s what I want to spend my time and money on. In my opinion, that’s heaps better than having a child.
Please do go on, and give me your thoughts on my response. I’m very interested…
As for saying anything out of place, as far as I’m concerned, as long as you don’t insult anyone and keep your manners, it’s all good. If you add value to other readers and share your thoughts, that’s even better. You’re doing great
Cheers!
Ben
What’s interesting about the “pro-kids” posts is how, sooner or later, they all either state outright or elude to the accusation that being childfree is selfish. I can think of no better example of trying to force one’s value system on another person than this kind of thinking; “if you’re not like me, you’re not normal.” Hitler loved that one.
It’s interesting to see an article on this, since there are a lot of people who don’t want kids. I myself don’t want kids, but I generally tend to think that I don’t want babies. When I’m much older, I wouldn’t mind taking care of someone who can at least tend to some of their needs. Babies are the worst, because they’re completely helpless and they can’t communicate very well. To a person like me, who’s very technically oriented (I’m a computer repair technician), that’s the worst scenario there is. I would be clueless as to what to do with a baby and grossed out when certain needs present themselves (because I’m also a very squeamish person; it’s not immaturity, it’s just the way my brain works).
I admit, I get frustrated when I read in stories and see on TV that having babies is the best thing ever. Barely a thought is given to NOT having babies or adopting.
That being said, I don’t think we should look down on people who want to have kids, if they don’t look down on us. Not having kids is no more a case of right and wrong than having kids, because they’re both personal decisions. True, by not having kids you might be contributing one less person to the issue of overpopulation, but you might also be taking away a person who might go on to solve one of those tough social issues. You simply don’t know. Who knows where we’d be if Einstein’s parents hadn’t had him? Or Martin Luther King Jr.’s? Like anything else in life, it’s an uncertainty.
Plus, it’s a little unfair to blame all humans for the overpopulation issue. Is a family of 8 in China as responsible as the guy in Newark who only has one kid? It’s not his fault they had so many, and he was put on this Earth the same way they were. He has as much right to have a child as they do. The only difference is, he was smarter about it. I know if I had nothing to do with a certain environmental issue, and my ancestors had nothing to do with a certain environmental issue, I would be offended if I got blamed for it nonetheless. Plus, not having a kid isn’t going to change anything unless 50% of the population does it, because someone else will just make up for the kid you don’t have. There has to be a distinction between the people who are involved.
People have to get educated about how overcrowded the planet is. They can have large families if they want, but they will have to adopt most of those kids and only have one or two at the most via natural conception. I’d stick with one because I honestly don’t see why women would want to repeat the experience more than once, seeing how much they complain about it and how painful it is for them. Of course, it’s a different
situation is birth control fails, or if you end up with multiple births in one pregnancy. Things happen like that and they have to be accounted for, because they’re not intentional. I feel sorry for one guy and his wife I heard about the other day who wanted one more kid and ended up with severan. I’m betting they’re wishing they’d adopted.
Not all kids are badly behaved either. That really depends on the parents. I know I wasn’t like that when I was a kid. I never did any of the ‘traditional’ things that kids do. Tantrums, crying, acting like a little brat…none of that applied to me. I was a very quiet, very well-behaved kid and my parents (my mother specifically) never let me forget it. On the other hand, my cousin’s kids are monsters. So it really does depend on the parent. Obviously my mom and my dad had something going for them as parents that my cousin doesn’t (and she has three of them).
Some people aren’t cut out to be parents, and so they shouldn’t have kids. In my case, I think I could be a good parent to a child of a slightly older age, but I can’t stand babies.
The science issue is more difficult because nature makes mistakes. Nature is not perfect, and a lot of the diseases or things that can happen to us in our DNA aren’t part of some higher plan, they’re abominations that happen because of freakish mistakes. Granted, that applies more to curing diseases than artificial methods of creating a child, but the point is still valid. The problem is when human emotions become involved. It’s hard to accept someone with a rare DNA disorder should die when you love them, even if it is better for the species.
Indeed, nature is not perfect, otherwise it would have designed us with a certain time frame during which women can get pregnant every year. That way we would know when to avoid the sex and when to have ut, whether or not you want to get pregnant.
Both sides have to come to an understanding. And for what it’s worth, I think those who don’t want to have children do a better job of accepting those who do, than the latter party does with us. But I think that’s the fault of the media and the churches, for encouraging us to think about nothing but getting married and starting a family.
Thanks for bringing this subject to the forefront!
Boy, that was a long post. O_O
Sorry for the typos in certain parts.
Hi Anthony! Long post indeed, and some interesting points
While I see you point about the guy in Newark who only has one child not having to take the blame for a Chinese family with 8, but the problem is a global one, and we all need to take responsibility. It might not be his fault, his parents’ fault or their parents’ fault, but the issue still needs to be dealt with. To take the position that he need do nothing about it is, in my opinion, a reflection of human selfishness that is all too common today: I had nothing to do with causing this problem, therefore I don’t need to solve it.
By comparison, Martin Luther King Jr. should not have lead the American civil rights movement, as he was not the cause of the inequalities.
Cheers
BB
It is estimated that there are 100 million orphaned children.
STOP BREEDING, START ADOPTING.
Totally agree, been feeling this for a while, just needed someone to put it into words.
I was starting to wonder if there were more people who felt like me in the world. I agree with most things this posts says. I have 2 adorable nieces and one newborn nephew, and recently found out there’s one more on the way (not sure about the gender yet).
My bestfriend keeps mentioning marriage and kids being in my future. My sister in law (mother of my nieces and nephews) keeps telling me that God will ‘punish’ me with several children for ‘being so mean’.
Mean because I don’t want kids.
I love children, I truly do. They are so adorable, full of wonder. I wouldn’t mind having 2 or 3 babies around at once. However once they start crying and making a fuss, I want their parents to come, quickly!
I’m always told that once it’s my children I’m taking care of, I’ll feel differently. I can’t help but imagine myself trying to claw out of my house to get away from my adorable little hellions (if it ever was to happen).
I told my significant other at the start of our relationship, that I did not want any kids. He brushed it off saying we didn’t know how we’d feel in a few months so it wasn’t important to put those views out yet. Some months later he told me he always wanted kids, but he also felt I was more important to him, and didn’t want to lose me over that ‘maybe in life’.
Right now I don’t know how I feel about that. I keep thinking that if we do make a commitment to spend our lives together, he’ll always regret not having kids, but I know that I’ll regret it if I do.
I was afraid that he’d wait till my feelings grew stronger for him, then propose that we pro-create. (He eventually did, and stepped back from it once he realized I was quite serious about no kids.)
I’ve only been with him for a year, and while I do love him I would not want to compromise my views for him.
I am selfish… I want my money to myself. I want my house to be and stay pristine and clean, free of colorful toys clouding my floors. I want my walls to be free of crayon markings and I certainly do not want to spend my mornings with smart-mouthed teenagers.
For as long as I could remember (as far back as 7 for this one) I always thought the world would be a better place if less people had kids, and more people adopted.
Wow this is crazy!!! I cannot get over the responses on here,I’m not alone after all!! SO hear are some random thoughts……
I too am basicaly selfish to a degree, I have many hobbies and don’t really wanna quit any of them. I like mostly everyone on here do like kids but want none. Small problem though….It seems like Ohio has no women that don’t want them if they don’t already have them.
Those of you who are in the “don’t want kids” group esp the men, probably send a date running when you mention you don’t want any.
Why is it that people seem to be “programed” a certain way? We all grow up hearing about being married and raising children. Your parents made comments like “.Just wait til you get married and have kids” or “I hope your kids turn out worse that you!” usually heard that when your in trouble.Then as we got older, people start to ask you “So when are you gonna meet some one and settle down?” You do that then it’s ” So when are you too gonna have kids?” It’s like the never ending peer pressure cooker!!!!!!
When people ask me how can I not want kids NO answer is ever good enough for them. They tell you “you’ll change your mind” or just try to argue wtih you about what your “missing”
Yeah I’m missing out on being broke all the time,FOREVER!!!!!lol And many other things as stated in the previous post!
That’s all for now, Since I have no kids i’m gonna go do whatever else I want to right now!!
Great thread Ben.
I’ve read most of the posts here and am glad that many (most) of you are so decided about not having children…I myself am not sure whether to have them or not…I thoroughly enjoy my time, my work, school and hobbies and my wonderful husband of almost 16 years…yes…I keep hearing about the clock ticking…but there are so many who have children later…but regardless…I want to be able to be definite about having or not having…at the rate we are going…well…still not clear…
I’m tired of hearing that it’s a selfish decision not to have kids…this is not selfish…selfish is not really thinking about it and having kids because you’re expected to…or it “just happened”…
My husband and I love our life…we enjoy each other, we travel, we have a lot of hobbies…our life is full…
I’m just not sure what to do…anyone else in this predicament?
We are not sure what to do…but I think he’s starting to want one…we just can’t make up our minds…
Hi Fi!
Hopefully, at some point, it will become clear to both of you whether you want a child or not. You don’t have to make up your minds now
In related news, we’re looking after a cat for a friend at the moment and that’s turning out to be much harder than expected! My wife feels guilty for not being there to keep him company, and decided not to go swimming last night in order to be at home. Imagine how much our lives would change with an animal that can’t look after itself - a human baby!
Thanks for stopping by!
BB
Thanks for getting back so quickly…did I mention I’m almost 42 years old? I think that makes quite a difference…yes, I need clarity and quickly…we have 2 cats ourselves…perfectly self sufficient…when we travel we just have friends watch them or we kennel them…easier then having dogs…
Anyway, I understand what everyone has said; overpopulation, overabundance of unwanted children who could be adopted, never mind the cost, and all those people who should not be parents…I see that everyday!!!
We talk about adopting so we could help a kid in need…our way of giving back we suppose…that’s another fork in the road…
And yes…I totally agree with everyone about keeping our lives the way it is…doing what you want when you want…where you want…do you know how many times I’ve actually heard…”if I had to do it over, I don’t think I would have had kids…I do love my kids, but…” How sad is that? Kids can bring you joy but oh could bring you so much pain…and friends have told me how much they “suck you dry!”…how do you have kids when you hear such things?…Then some turn around and tell you how wonderful it is…
Bottom line…we just want to make the right decision…waiting so long hasn’t helped…the longer you’re without…it’s actually nice…not to mention all the medical issues we may face at our age…
I’m at a crossroads….everyone here is so sure, I do envy that…I have only seen a few sites where others feel as I do…people are either pro or con…at least I’ve only looked for a few…I don’t have that much time to search and find the right site/s for me…
Thanks for not judging, BB…as someone said before…those who decide to be childfree should not judge who want and vice versa…but somehow, I find that those who have kids easily judge those who don’t want…
Well…thanks for listening…
I must admit - I’m of the same opinion as you, Ben.
I have been with my partner for almost 14 years and we’ve never had the desire to have children. The thing is though - that I suspect we have put far more thought into NOT having children than most people put into having them.
I totally agree. I am a woman, and I’ve been married for 4 1/2 years. I don’t want children, but my husband does. Honestly I never wanted children. I wanted to have the baby making equipment removed, (if you know what I mean), but they say I’m too young. That’s crap.
People tell me that I should have kids, and the people who say that can’t afford the ones they have. I like spending my money on me, keeping my time to myself. That may be selfish, but it’s my life. Sometimes I want to say, why are you having kids. You can’t afford them! And why would I have a child just to send them off to someone else to raise, with their beliefs, habits, rituals, etc. (meaning daycare) I personally think that is the dumbest idea. You don’t know what they are doing to your children. In some cases it’s cheaper for one parent to stay home.
A co-worker said to me, you have to keep the family going. I didn’t say to her what I wanted to. The fact that she’s hitting 70 and can’t retire. No thank you.
Now the problem is all of our friends that are married have children, and some of them are boring. Either they can’t go out because they don’t have a baby sitter, or they can’t afford to go out.
That is not the life I want. I agree Ben TOTALLY.
YOU ONLY HAVE ONE LIFE. ENJOY IT!!!
In the old days having kids made sense, because there was safety in numbers to make sure that your tribe will survive….thats no longer the case…i’m going to prove that actually wanting to have kids nowdays is selfish and here’s why….
First of all we are running out of resources and real-estate facing all kinds of food and water shortages….
Now consider this:
When you ask most people why the want kids they will usually give you one of these lines…
“So someone can take care of me when i’m old”
or
“I want to re-live my childhood through them”
or
“I want to achieve immortality by pro-creation so my genes carry on….
All these are acts of VANITY and SELFISHNESS…..
Not that there’s anything wrong with that, each to their own….
In this society people are slowly brainwashed into wanting to have a family from very early age….if someone dares to think outside the box…”there must be something wrong with them”…..here is why:
IT’S ALL ABOUT MONEY!!!!!!!!!
Period….
Your government knows that you are creating and raising taxpayers for them and spending a fortune in the process….and they don’t want you to stop…. that’s why all the brainwashing…..
My goal in life is to do what i want, when i want and outside of work answer to no one….not doable if you have kids.
And before you call me selfish, many of you will discover, that if they dig deep…. secretly they also want to do what they want and answer to no-one, but shame won’t allow them to admit it, for fear of being rejected by the society, for not wanting what they “should” and for fear of being labeled “selfish”….
Hi Joe! Thanks for stopping by and sharing your thoughts. I agree with them all, but I think you know that
My husband and I don’t want kids either. To be frank, it has nothing to do with overpopulation (we live in the western U.S) or the environment, but more to do with the pressure, financial and emotional, that having kids requires.
I have asked many parents if they would have kids again knowing what they know now–and the answer is always, “Privately? NO!”
I like my freedom, my happy marriage, and my figure.
Hi Kara! Thanks for contributing…
It seems we’re not as alone as some of us might originally have thought! You’ve broken the half-century for number of comments for this post, and it still surprises me this is the most popular post on my blog!
It’s obvious that people have many reasons for not wanting kids, but at least one thing in common - it still seems to be (openly) socially unacceptable and we’re the ones that have to justify ourselves to people who probably classify themselves as accepting and open
Hey! Never say that you are “being selfish” for not wanting kids. You are thinking of yourself - yes - but by not having kids, you’re making yourself happy! And lets face it, no one else in this world can make you happy except yourself.
I’m 27 and married - but I just don’t see the POINT of having kids. Seriously, people think I’m “incensitive” and “strange” for not wanting kids at all. I don’t actually care! I love my life!
I think that kids is for “family folk” - I love my parents, but I’m not interested in going through all that shit again, with me on the receiving end. And it’s going to destroy my body. No thank you. I’m no baby farm. *hehehe*
On a POSITIVE note, I’m really happy with the choices I’ve made - and I think that by not wanting kids yourself, does not make you selfish or anything like that… You’re a LOT smarter than these stupid 15 year olds having kids & screwing up their whole future.
You CHOSE - that’s what makes your life interesting.
But that’s just me.
Haha. I grew up the oldest of 10 kids. You know how awesome it was to get my own apartment at 20? No way am I having kids this decade. If the world doesn’t get worse in the next decade, I might (might…) want one, but after seeing the agony’s of being pregnant over and over again, my (hypothetical) child will be coming from an adoption agency.
Right now, I have two cats and I spoil them like crazy. The best perk? The money I save every month went to a 72″ TV. Booyah.
Hi,
I’m 14 but already i know i don’t want kids and i have known that since i was like 4. I was never into dolls or baby stuff unlike all my friends, the very thought of being pregnant or having a child makes me feel queezy especially the pregnant part.
Why should i have to share my body with another life, it would feel like an invasion to me.
I totally agree with the whole over-population thing and the environment and in no way do i think or feel I’m being selfish in not wanting to have kids, although i do have one selfish reason and that is i wouldn’t want to have to share my partner or have anything come between us and i see lots of marriages fall apart after having kids.
I also must say it annoys the hell out of me when people say I’m weird because i don’t want kids or say your to young to say things like that and you’ll change your mind when your older, but i don’t think i will i don’t like kids babies are cute to look at when their sleeping but thats as far as my liking goes for kids.
Hi Amber!
I told my wife about your comment regarding not being into dolls or baby stuff. She was the same, despite the number of stuffed toys she still owns
It’s great to see a young person with firm beliefs and the self-respect to stand by them, rather than conform with societal expectations and perceived ‘norms’. Many adults still don’t manage that!
Hi Ben,
I found this website after searching google for the term “I don’t want kids”, because as you may have guessed, I do not.
I have lived with a woman who has had children. It throws a really strange dynamic into the relationship. …this dynamic seems to actually be perpetuated by what I see on television too - as if a man’s desires are now some sort of punchline and that they should be repressed. (Why are men so frequently now portrayed as stupid, droning, food motivated morons?)
Sex: It had to be mentioned. Why? because it’s the whole reason any guy even started a conversation with a girl to begin with. …Well, having kids around adds a heap of new reasons why you won’t be getting any. Considering a venture outside of the marriage for the affection that you so crave? Forget it - you will crucified for your infidelity and you will forfeit most of everything and half of the rest. …Not to mention your kid will never understand that your wife was a cold fish - and he will blame you unendingly throughout his childhood. Then he’ll get married, face the same situation, and blame his infidelity on you as well.
Money: Oh, you used to have some? Fantastic, because junior over there needs a new trumpet that he can ceaselessly aggravate you and the neighbors with and then completely ignore to collect dust. — Let’s also continue to bear in mind that the reason you worked so hard throughout school and your career was so that you could have the joy of forgoing all of your incentives. That new motorcycle?? You don’t ‘Need’ that. What you ‘Need’ is to take your cold, unaffectionate wife and ungrateful offspring on a vacation. That’s what you need. During travel and upon arrival they will complain ad nasuem about everything from the weather, to the travel, to the food and fill you in on where they’d have rather gone. Fantastic.
Marriage and children are the ‘One Two’ punch that will knock the happiness and individuality out of your life for a very long time.
I highly recommend to any guys who read this to Go to the gym, keep yourself in shape (marketable), date casually, buy whatever the heck you want, get your booty calls when you need them and form lasting friendships with certain women (sex with others), but do not try to make it go further. Cohabitation and marriage are inviting a disaster into your life. If you find that this has already happened, and you feel hopeless - take heart.
Eventually everyone dies. Don’t do it yourself, however, you would be blamed for that as well.
Cheers!
I am so glad I found this site. I never thought any guys and girls would agree and feel how I feel. It seems that in order to be recognized in my family is that you have to have kids. I am not married and am in no hurry to get married. Why? Becuase I am not dying to have children. And if I do decide to have children, I plan to adopt. Why adopt? Becuase, there are so many children who need parents. I have some medical issues that are genetic. Though it is highly unlikely that it would get passed on to the child, I am still afriad to take that risk and would much rather raise a child that is already in this world than bring in another one which could carry my medical history.
Another reason why I am not dying to have kids is that it seems that parents today do not raise their own children. It seems that the grandparents, nannies and daycare does that. So my question is: Why do you want children if you cannot even raise them. It sounds harsh, but if you can’t raise them, don’t have them. My mother raises my niece full time becuase my sister and her husband both have to work and they can’t afford afford daycare.
So am I being selfish with my views? Perhaps. I am not perfect. But I think parents with children can be just as selfish, especially when they would rather have their own flesh and blook than adopt a child in need.
So, yes, I am a girl in her late twenties who doesn’t want to have kids. I love taking care of my niece but after helping my mother raise her, I realized that raising a child is not what it is cracked up to be.
I love my two birds. Sure they won’t take care of me when I am old or they will never go out in the world and succed with this or that. But I know they love me and I don’t have to worry about them getting mixed up with unprotected sex, drugs, alcohol abuse, and crime. My family thinks I am weird becuase I treat them like children but that’s just me.
Ok, I hope this post isn’t too long
Ben,
I hear you brother. I don’t want kids either. I value my disposable income, my personal growth, my free time, my hobbies, my businesses, my freedom, the cleanliness of my apartment, and the nice quiet atmosphere I’ve created for myself. Why in flaming hell would I want to screw all that up with a child? What would be the point? I would only end up resenting the thing that took all that I value away from me and what kind of parent would I be if that were to be the case?
Also, some people’s contribution to the gene pool is just, quite frankly, crappy. I seriously wish that IQ tests were required before breeding was allowed. Yeah, a bit Brave New World-ish, I know but having a 6+ billion people gene pool of mostly idiots does not get me on fire to bring a child into this world. Shooting down all the idiotic things said to my hypothetical child every day when he comes home from school and tells me “so-and-so said ______” would become a full-time job. Not to mention I probably would not be too popular with the child’s teachers and peers (and peer’s parents) when my reply to the afformentioned idiotic statement is “Yeah, well, so-and-so has an intelligence deficit”.
I bet Darwin is rolling in his grave from not anticipating medical technology combined with whimsical human emotions that lead to keeping the weak alive.